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	<title>Comments on: AFTER THE BOOM THERE WILL BE A BUST&#8230;.</title>
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		<title>By: timmuggs</title>
		<link>http://pragcap.com/after-the-boom-there-will-be-a-bust/comment-page-1#comment-6017</link>
		<dc:creator>timmuggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragcap.com/?p=8781#comment-6017</guid>
		<description>TPC and others,

As an investor, my concern is what do I do with my money. If the Fed insists on inflating the currency, what do I do?

It may be correct to say that the conditions we are under do not lead to business growth, and therefore the growth in the value of stocks will probably be negative. But so what? Under the same conditions, keeping money in currency or bonds or the mattress will be disastrous to ones net worth.

TPC points to the last 10-15 years to make his point. OK, I can see that the Dow is below where it was some time a go, and the NASDAQ is down significantly from its high of 9+ years ago. However, if one had held one&#039;s stash in US Treasuries for the last 10 years, one would have done quite well. Is that your point? Is that what I should do now? I don&#039;t think that is what you are advising.

So if I cannot hold cash in US Treasuries or dollar denominated bonds due to inflation risks, and the Euro is risky, and the yen is riaksy too, and the yuan is tied by the Chinese authorities to the dollar, and I cannot afford to keep an oil tanker out in the bay in front of my house, and I don&#039;t have a vault big enough for all the silver, and I don&#039;t want to stand guard over bullion 24x7, what do I do?

It seems academically correct to say, stocks are a bad bet. But there is not much left to do other than become a hermit or join a militia someplace. So I prefer to buy stocks in what I regard as an intelligent manner.

BTW, I&#039;ve been doing so quite successfully since 1996. Right now I have my stash in gold &amp; silver miners, oil companies, Canadian &amp; Aussie dollars, Chinese yuan and some Canadian utilities for cash flow. Plus some alternative energy stocks for popcorn &amp; entertainment. I&#039;m not sure what else to do.

Seems like a good time to keep a nimble outlook.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TPC and others,</p>
<p>As an investor, my concern is what do I do with my money. If the Fed insists on inflating the currency, what do I do?</p>
<p>It may be correct to say that the conditions we are under do not lead to business growth, and therefore the growth in the value of stocks will probably be negative. But so what? Under the same conditions, keeping money in currency or bonds or the mattress will be disastrous to ones net worth.</p>
<p>TPC points to the last 10-15 years to make his point. OK, I can see that the Dow is below where it was some time a go, and the NASDAQ is down significantly from its high of 9+ years ago. However, if one had held one&#8217;s stash in US Treasuries for the last 10 years, one would have done quite well. Is that your point? Is that what I should do now? I don&#8217;t think that is what you are advising.</p>
<p>So if I cannot hold cash in US Treasuries or dollar denominated bonds due to inflation risks, and the Euro is risky, and the yen is riaksy too, and the yuan is tied by the Chinese authorities to the dollar, and I cannot afford to keep an oil tanker out in the bay in front of my house, and I don&#8217;t have a vault big enough for all the silver, and I don&#8217;t want to stand guard over bullion 24&#215;7, what do I do?</p>
<p>It seems academically correct to say, stocks are a bad bet. But there is not much left to do other than become a hermit or join a militia someplace. So I prefer to buy stocks in what I regard as an intelligent manner.</p>
<p>BTW, I&#8217;ve been doing so quite successfully since 1996. Right now I have my stash in gold &amp; silver miners, oil companies, Canadian &amp; Aussie dollars, Chinese yuan and some Canadian utilities for cash flow. Plus some alternative energy stocks for popcorn &amp; entertainment. I&#8217;m not sure what else to do.</p>
<p>Seems like a good time to keep a nimble outlook.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://pragcap.com/after-the-boom-there-will-be-a-bust/comment-page-1#comment-5987</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 04:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragcap.com/?p=8781#comment-5987</guid>
		<description>Supposedly credit is contracting at depression like rates again:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/6190818/US-credit-shrinks-at-Great-Depression-rate-prompting-fears-of-double-dip-recession.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Supposedly credit is contracting at depression like rates again:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/6190818/US-credit-shrinks-at-Great-Depression-rate-prompting-fears-of-double-dip-recession.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/6190818/US-credit-shrinks-at-Great-Depression-rate-prompting-fears-of-double-dip-recession.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: jt26</title>
		<link>http://pragcap.com/after-the-boom-there-will-be-a-bust/comment-page-1#comment-5980</link>
		<dc:creator>jt26</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragcap.com/?p=8781#comment-5980</guid>
		<description>John Mc is making the correct observation re:pattern recognition of the response of central bankers.  But, the state of global leverage gives much less margin of error vs. 98, 02.  As well, the status of stimulus programs in 2010 is unclear.  As well, 2010 is packed with a lot of political issues: Obama Yr2, mid-terms, widening State deficits, rising union influence etc. I think the US, given the same playbook is much riskier for the next year than even China.  China&#039;s stimulus has resulted in a ~1/3 GDP/Stimulus ratio (GDP %growth/[stimulus %GDP]) for the first 6 months of 09 ... somewhat better than the US 2004-07 (~0.25) based on GDP/Debt ratio.  You can still make money for a trade.  The question is will you know when to get out.  The first big indicator of the end came in May07 when Japan announced a tigtening stance and you could see the liquidity disruption over the next 6 months.  But, you still had almost a year to take money off the table.  My gut tells me the US markets are on a hair trigger; you may not have 6 months to make your exit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Mc is making the correct observation re:pattern recognition of the response of central bankers.  But, the state of global leverage gives much less margin of error vs. 98, 02.  As well, the status of stimulus programs in 2010 is unclear.  As well, 2010 is packed with a lot of political issues: Obama Yr2, mid-terms, widening State deficits, rising union influence etc. I think the US, given the same playbook is much riskier for the next year than even China.  China&#8217;s stimulus has resulted in a ~1/3 GDP/Stimulus ratio (GDP %growth/[stimulus %GDP]) for the first 6 months of 09 &#8230; somewhat better than the US 2004-07 (~0.25) based on GDP/Debt ratio.  You can still make money for a trade.  The question is will you know when to get out.  The first big indicator of the end came in May07 when Japan announced a tigtening stance and you could see the liquidity disruption over the next 6 months.  But, you still had almost a year to take money off the table.  My gut tells me the US markets are on a hair trigger; you may not have 6 months to make your exit.</p>
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		<title>By: jt26</title>
		<link>http://pragcap.com/after-the-boom-there-will-be-a-bust/comment-page-1#comment-5978</link>
		<dc:creator>jt26</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragcap.com/?p=8781#comment-5978</guid>
		<description>I think timmuggs pt is that the *relative* returns of stocks can be &quot;positive&quot;.  I looked at Triumph of the Optimists, and the real stock market return in Germany from 1900-29 (includes the period of 22-23 hyperinflation) is -1.5% (annualized).  Bonds and short term bills were wiped out *completely*.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think timmuggs pt is that the *relative* returns of stocks can be &#8220;positive&#8221;.  I looked at Triumph of the Optimists, and the real stock market return in Germany from 1900-29 (includes the period of 22-23 hyperinflation) is -1.5% (annualized).  Bonds and short term bills were wiped out *completely*.</p>
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		<title>By: MS</title>
		<link>http://pragcap.com/after-the-boom-there-will-be-a-bust/comment-page-1#comment-5976</link>
		<dc:creator>MS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragcap.com/?p=8781#comment-5976</guid>
		<description>Good stuff TPC, but in the meantime how should we invest in this market?  I know you got out at 1,000 after a great run, but what now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff TPC, but in the meantime how should we invest in this market?  I know you got out at 1,000 after a great run, but what now?</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://pragcap.com/after-the-boom-there-will-be-a-bust/comment-page-1#comment-5971</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragcap.com/?p=8781#comment-5971</guid>
		<description>Great post TPC, sets it out beautifully.

What struck me particularly was your phrase &#039;and the banks have grown larger in what has to be the most incredible power grab in modern economic times.&#039;

Over at Jesse&#039;s cafe Americain (&lt;a href=&quot;http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;) there is a good article on Central Banks with the conclusion: &#039;We think there is a reason that the Federal Reserve, for instance, is resisting the Congressional move for a thorough audit, and it has little to do with a professed concern for the destabilization of banking institutions. We believe, as with Iceland, that central banking is infested with private dealings in millions and even billions of dollars. How could it be otherwise?&#039; 

With the events that have occurred in the USA in the last decade one doesn&#039;t need a tin-foil hat to begin to wonder whether this is more than a power grab but a carefully designed, non-violent, coup d&#039;etat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post TPC, sets it out beautifully.</p>
<p>What struck me particularly was your phrase &#8216;and the banks have grown larger in what has to be the most incredible power grab in modern economic times.&#8217;</p>
<p>Over at Jesse&#8217;s cafe Americain (<a href="http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">here</a>) there is a good article on Central Banks with the conclusion: &#8216;We think there is a reason that the Federal Reserve, for instance, is resisting the Congressional move for a thorough audit, and it has little to do with a professed concern for the destabilization of banking institutions. We believe, as with Iceland, that central banking is infested with private dealings in millions and even billions of dollars. How could it be otherwise?&#8217; </p>
<p>With the events that have occurred in the USA in the last decade one doesn&#8217;t need a tin-foil hat to begin to wonder whether this is more than a power grab but a carefully designed, non-violent, coup d&#8217;etat.</p>
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		<title>By: TPC</title>
		<link>http://pragcap.com/after-the-boom-there-will-be-a-bust/comment-page-1#comment-5966</link>
		<dc:creator>TPC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragcap.com/?p=8781#comment-5966</guid>
		<description>Naa,

That is the money multiplier.  To make things really simple, it basically shows whether money is being loaned out and thus sent out into the economy - whether it is being &quot;multiplied&quot;.  http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/money-multiplier.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Naa,</p>
<p>That is the money multiplier.  To make things really simple, it basically shows whether money is being loaned out and thus sent out into the economy &#8211; whether it is being &#8220;multiplied&#8221;.  <a href="http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/money-multiplier.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/money-multiplier.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: TPC</title>
		<link>http://pragcap.com/after-the-boom-there-will-be-a-bust/comment-page-1#comment-5964</link>
		<dc:creator>TPC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragcap.com/?p=8781#comment-5964</guid>
		<description>Timmugs,

I am not implying that stocks can&#039;t soar in an environment like this.  In fact, I think quite the opposite.  But the boom bust cycle of the last 20 years has proven that money printing does not create sustainable or organic economic growth.  And that is the only thing that a durable bull market can be built on.  The last 15 years of stock returns are a great example.  Anyone arguing your position has been wrong for well over a decade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timmugs,</p>
<p>I am not implying that stocks can&#8217;t soar in an environment like this.  In fact, I think quite the opposite.  But the boom bust cycle of the last 20 years has proven that money printing does not create sustainable or organic economic growth.  And that is the only thing that a durable bull market can be built on.  The last 15 years of stock returns are a great example.  Anyone arguing your position has been wrong for well over a decade.</p>
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		<title>By: Naa</title>
		<link>http://pragcap.com/after-the-boom-there-will-be-a-bust/comment-page-1#comment-5963</link>
		<dc:creator>Naa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragcap.com/?p=8781#comment-5963</guid>
		<description>Hi TPC -

Can you please explain the M1 chart with 50% equity rally circle? I understand that the ratio needs to be &gt;1 in order for every new dollar (debt - printing press) to have effect in the real economy. But I am not sure how is it helping the equity rally.

Thank you and I really appreciate your help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi TPC -</p>
<p>Can you please explain the M1 chart with 50% equity rally circle? I understand that the ratio needs to be &gt;1 in order for every new dollar (debt &#8211; printing press) to have effect in the real economy. But I am not sure how is it helping the equity rally.</p>
<p>Thank you and I really appreciate your help.</p>
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		<title>By: timmuggs</title>
		<link>http://pragcap.com/after-the-boom-there-will-be-a-bust/comment-page-1#comment-5962</link>
		<dc:creator>timmuggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragcap.com/?p=8781#comment-5962</guid>
		<description>I agree with John Mc. 

Where else will all this money go? Not into treasuries or CRE. So most likely it will go into stocks or other assets, like oil, copper, mining, pipelines and so on. 


I disagree with TPC.

He says the printing press has not proven to have any long term or sustainable positive effect on stocks. I believe the opposite is true. As the Zimbabwe currency was debased, the stock market soared. In Weimar Germany, if you held cash, you were wiped out. If you put your cash into Siemens stock, you came out ok. 

What we are seeing now, IMHO, is money finding its way out of cash and bonds and into stocks of companies that own assets that will survive inflation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with John Mc. </p>
<p>Where else will all this money go? Not into treasuries or CRE. So most likely it will go into stocks or other assets, like oil, copper, mining, pipelines and so on. </p>
<p>I disagree with TPC.</p>
<p>He says the printing press has not proven to have any long term or sustainable positive effect on stocks. I believe the opposite is true. As the Zimbabwe currency was debased, the stock market soared. In Weimar Germany, if you held cash, you were wiped out. If you put your cash into Siemens stock, you came out ok. </p>
<p>What we are seeing now, IMHO, is money finding its way out of cash and bonds and into stocks of companies that own assets that will survive inflation.</p>
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