JIM GRANT DOWNGRADES U.S. CREDIT RATING???
Interesting commentary from supposed interest rate guru Jim Grant here. He was on Bloomberg yesterday discussing the credit worthiness and his credit downgrade of the U.S. He makes the classic mistake of comparing the U.S. government to a household, but conveniently bases his “downgrade” of U.S. credit on a faulty model:
“(the downgrade was made) as if (the U.S. government) were an issuer (of debt) that didn’t have a printing press.”
First of all, let’s repeat this once again. The United States is not revenue constrained. We do not sell debt to China and Japan in order to finance our spending. Likewise, we do not tax in order to spend. We simply spend. It might sound counter-intuitive, but this is how our monetary system works and has worked since 1971 when we became a non-convertible floating exchange rate system. Whether we are a good steward of the currency is entirely based on how well the U.S. government controls the rate of inflation (of which there is none right now which provides a significant buffer in terms of “printing money” – please reference the wild spending in Japan, low inflation and ability to run very high deficits for 20 years in case you’re looking for historical precedence). High inflation is controlled primarily via taxation (debiting private sector bank accounts). Inflation is low right now and should remain relatively low based on lending trends, capacity utilization, output gap, high unemployment, etc. Therefore, we should all hope that taxes will remain low (the UK’s recent tax hike is a clear sign that they don’t understand how their own non-convertible floating currency system actually works).
Getting back to Grant’s comments, however….The fact that the U.S. has a printing press is exactly why it is entirely different from a household or a state government. Households and states must compete for dollars that the U.S. government “prints”. They are revenue constrained. The U.S. government, however, is never revenue constrained. They can simply spend at will and will never be at risk of defaulting (barring economic collapse or unforeseen catastrophe that inhibits the government’s ability to tax and enforce taxation on the public). Ignoring the fact that the U.S. has a printing press is a fatal flaw in understanding how the monetary system works in the United States. This is akin to writing up a credit rating for an alchemist while ignoring the fact that his primary line of work involves the creation of gold! Can an alchemist become late on his house payments? Sure, but only if he decides he doesn’t want to make any more gold. The alchemist, by definition, never cannot meet his obligations. Can he dilute the value of gold? Sure, but that is an entirely different story and in a world of low inflation (see here), dilution is not a primary concern.
Based on the idea that we just print paper that is backed by nothing, Grant goes on to describe our monetary system as:
“A great suspension of disbelief”
I am not certain if Grant is a believer in the gold standard, but his comments imply such. As I’ve thoroughly covered, the gold standard doesn’t exist today because there are inherent flaws in a commodity linked currency system. The primary weakness is that it inhibits spending and wrongly weakens trade deficit nations. Of course, the natural argument against such comments is that, the inhibition of spending is exactly the point. But the Austrians and deficit hawks never seem to complain about deficit spending when it involves printing up dollars to go to war or defend the nation. In other words, not all spending is bad spending. Sending checks to bankers who should have failed? Bad spending. Spending on healthcare with record high unemployment. Bad spending. You catch my drift. The world is not as black and white as most politicians and economists would like to believe.
In trying to define what a dollar is, Mr. Grant goes on to say that a dollar is:
“An assertion that the treasury will be good on something”
But again, this implies that our alchemist can somehow be “bad” on something. In order for the United States, which is never revenue constrained, to go “bad” on our payments we would have to let inflation get wildly out of control, stop producing goods which are in high demand, stop producing work which is in high demand, stop being a great economic engine or somehow lose the ability to tax and enforce taxation on the citizens of the nation. While the economy remains weak and China is nipping at our heels as the world’s dominant economic engine there is no reason to assume that the United States cannot meet its obligations (of which there are technically none). It is not the public sector whose credit rating is in peril, but the private sector’s credit rating which is in peril. Mr. Grant can downgrade the U.S. credit rating until the cows come home (and I will short the subsequent spike in U.S. sovereign CDS), but that won’t change the fact that we are our own banker, the most powerful alchemist on the planet and never ever revenue constrained.
Full video attached:
Source: Bloomberg TV



I don’t agree with you on this one TPC. I understand your belief that our ability to print money will allow us to always pay off our debt obligations and expand government spending but this seems to ignore the rational human reaction to such an action. If we just print more money, its value will deteriorate and eventually someone will refuse to accept payment in it. It will be rendered meaningless or, at best, someone will require a huge amount of dollars to complete even routine transactions. Wouldn’t that inherently cause hyperinflation? This would allow for huge price increases without there being an underlying demand spike. Germany, Argentina, Yugoslavia, or even recently with Zimbabwe didn’t happen with unbridled economic prosperity.
Grant,
Nothing wrong with disagreeing. This is controversial stuff.
In order for the rest of the world to stop accepting our dollars we would have to stop producing goods that they demand. Or as you say, we could inflate so massively that it destroys the currency, but where is this inflation?
Why has Japan not suffered the consequences of the things you speak of? They have printed non-stop for 20 years running….Think long and hard about that one. The dynamics are VERY similar here in the US. ‘
As for Zimbabwe, Weimar, Argentina – apples and oranges comparisons. One was a corrupt racially divided nation with 80% unemployment. The others were convertible currency systems. Apple and oranges. NOTHING like the US today.
We ARE seeing inflation TPC, a lot of it. It just doesn’t show up in official statistics. Who is not paying many times what they used to to feed a family of four? How may times a year have transportation costs jumped 20%? Utilities? Up. Sure, we seeing deflation is consumables like computers, but in the commodity based items that people need to exist, inflation is very much a reality. Combine this with the fact that real incomes have gone nowhere in 20 years if you don’t work on Wall Street and we have a very real problem.
I’m not convinced that my standard of living is worse than my parents….Do you have any real evidence of that? I would say I am far better off than my parents were at my age….
Was he asking about standard of iving or inflation rising or not?
My parents lived in a 1050square foot bungalow and paid cash for everything, timees were tight.
I live in a 3400 square foot 2 storey and have 2 SUV’s and a boat. I travel 4 times a year out of the country. You bet I live better than my parents!
But I am 200,00 under water on my mortgage, some repo man tried to take my boat last week, and I may stop making payments on the Escalade.
I guess 2 years ago I felt richer than my parents, now I am not so sure.
I agree there is no inflation. A zip drive is way cheaper than it used to be and whenever food gets too expensive i stop eating ground beef and vegetables and switch to hot dogs and Kraft dinner.
Voila – groceries are no more expensive.
So obviously, if the CPI is your gaguge, there is no inflation, and you might as well believe there are green shoots everywhere and the economy is in the midst of recovery.
Yeah! Spend spend spend! Limos for everybody! Come on TPC. Are you becoming a Keynesian hack?
Certainly not Dan. But I do think there are very good forms of government spending. I think most readers would agree that military spending is vital and effective. Cherry picking one example, but you get my point. It’s not as black and white as Keynesians and Austrians like to believe.
Hence, why I am selectively Austrian AND Keynesian. Depends on the circumstance. Politically, even I am confused about what I am….
TPC,
You heard it from me first.. I still wonder if the main stream media picks up on this. It will be interesting to see if it’s covered anywhere Sunday morning. This one could get a little messy next week.
Has the Fed become the next Greece? Oh no, that means America becomes the next Greece. I mean come on now; the Fed and Treasury are Americas Bank for goodness sakes.
I just find it VERY odd that this report was ever published????? The only difference here is that there is nobody to back stop the United States of America except a damn printing press. Is this Ben’s version of a Thank You Card sent to Congress for the tongue slashing he took? Is this the “I’ll show that dumb butt from Kentucky who’s boss?”
Let’s have another hearing next week shall we! Ron Paul, please call this hearing to order.
i see you paid attention at MMT class (modern monetary theory)
the real question that we still worry about, though, is the CONSEQUENCES of all this money creation. We can only pray that it does not become dangerously inflationary
Kid,
You hit the nail on the head. I would argue that much of this spending has been highly destructive. We’re one year off the lows and here we are with banks back to their old tricks and real estate flippers crowding onto the Court House steps…..It’s really amazing. It’s difficult to see how this doesn’t end similarly to what we just went thru. No regulatory changes, much of the spending has been highly inefficient, etc.
The private sector balance sheet is still a mess.
I take the point. But here’s my dumb question: if we just print money, why is the treasury auctioning record amounts of debt?
Why does the government bond market exist? Hmmm, that is a great question! I have asked myself that a million times.
It serves no real purpose other than to maintain interest rates and provide some constant government stimulus to savers. Aside from that, it has no purpose. It does not fund spending. I guess you could argue that it provides some accountability, but the Fed keeps a close eye on the money supply with or without bond sales. But the people to talk to about this are the ones who are making money from the existence of the bond market….The bankers….
The Fed has no business being a separate entity from the Tsy. The government bond market is a relic from the gold standard and big business for a lot of people….
I’m with you on the potential inflation. In many ways it’s already started in food and oil. It appears to me that equities (especially financials) and commodities have been the sole benefactors of Ben’s policies. I mean come on we are nearing 11,000 on the DOW. The NASDQ is behaving like it did in the dot com era. I say we are back to the dot com era blow up, only this time it will cover all sectors of the market. The American consumer is just not reflating.
But I tend to disagree with you on the real estate side of the equation. Of course I only know what’s going on in Dallas, Texas. I can tell you that deflationary pressures still abound here. I carry a brokers licensed and I am just now seeing some signs of cracking in some really respectful areas within Dallas that you wouldn’t think to see this year. We are experiencing a big spike in new listings that we didn’t have last year, which could result in further price decreases. Time will tell. But too many flippers, no, not here. Remember your always going to have some flipping, no matter what. You may be seeing more of this in California, but California won’t learn its lesson until the entire state implodes.
TPC
Based on this logic why did Zimbabwe not flourish
Further why do we print 500x the money and make everyone a billionaire. Then we can buy up every asset on earth. no consequences TPC style.
Why would Zimbabwe have flourished? They had very little real productivity and one of the most corrupt governments on the planet. How can people even compare Zimbabwe to the US? It’s not even apples and oranges. Its apples and bricks. The two couldn’t be more different.
And I specifically stated that you can’t just print your way to prosperity. But the fact that we print money for particular uses does not mean it is inherently bad. Does government have a tendency to mis-allocate? Yes, but that doesn’t change the fact that Grant’s statements are wrong.
if we didn’t have the world’s reserve currency, there is no way we’d have been able to accomplish what he have so far. Zimbabwe did not have the world’s reserve currency.
Which is a very important distinction. Why are we the world’s reserve? Because we produce an enormous amount that is in demand around the globe. Few if any can compete on the same level with our corporations. In other words, we are still #1 despite what you might hear in the media….
is THAT it? or is it that we SPEND a tremendous amount around the globe?
or maybe both… ??
TPC,
I think you overestimate the economy of the US. I believe our debt/exports ratio is near 700%, which is historically off the charts.
You stated that, as long as foreigners buy stuff produced here, they will continue to accept dollars, but the US is a net exporter of very little real things. Instead, for at least a decade now, the main export of this country has been dollars created by your magical printing press.
However, whatever is unsustainable must end, and this transaction of green pieces of paper for real stuff is most definitely unsustainable. The end result, coming soon to a street near you, is massive price increases in fuel, food and other real necessities of life for those who hold those previously magical little pieces of green paper.
Sending dollars to go sit in vaults in China isn’t going to cause inflation necessarily. What is destructive about our spending policies is that we are terribly inefficient with it. We bail out banks and not consumers for instance. It breeds mal-investment. And yes, it will happen again.
I am not saying that it was right to spend to the extent that we have. I am simply explaining why the mechanics of the system do not make it inherently negative. It is the men who abuse it who are evil. And you have the bankers to thank for our current predicament.
BS. bankers are people too. they have to feed their families. people who don’t take advantage (non-bankers, apparently) are suckers (myself included). it is not immoral to seek to maximize your standard of living in an immoral system that you are powerless to change.
You state:
“I think most readers would agree that military spending is vital and effective”
HaHaha.
It would be funny…except for all the death,destruction & debt that mentality has caused.
From lying about the initial events leading the US into Vietnam or into Iraq…we’ve seen that the Military Industrial Complex buys Gov reps and pulls the Country down in the process. Even now the U.S. spends more each year than the World combined. For what? To keep to protect the assets of the ultra wealthy 0.1 percent.
You lost any credibility you might of had with your statement above.
Dude …you’re a throw back to yesteryear ….when people were gullible enough to believe the BIG LIE and listen to the likes of you.
If only we lived in peace….I am not trying to justify the acts of war and the hypocrisy in invading other countries while complaining about domestic big government, but I think there is no denying that there is a great deal of good that comes from the military. Perhaps most important is the productivity of the military. You don’t think of it as an economic engine, but it is.
Is the military moral? Is the banking system moral? Is the healthcare system moral. I could twist this argument any way you’d please. The truth is, from an economic perspective, the military does a great deal of good. Far more than our bankers in my opinion….
Do you really think we live in a world where military’s aren’t necessary?
The more important point is not a moral one. It is simply how our monetary system works. The government spends in order to tax. Not vice versa. That is the message getting lost in all of this….
Most people with a bachelor’s degree could raise a family on a single income in 1971. Try doing that now. That’s what people who think like you have done to the middle class and their kids. Nice work!
Interesting article but I disagree. Your main point seems to be that all debts can be paid with a printing press. I live in the UK, we have a printing press, we are as indebted as Greece so are you suggesting that all we need to do is to crank up the presses and pay of all our debts and that is it? Low inflation in Japan may be due to the fact that 90% of their debt is internally financed – the people there buy their own bonds. In the US others provide the finance. Surely, again, if it was as simple as printing more money, why do you need to sell bonds at all? just print what you need.
I am willing to admit there is great deal I do not know but your argument seems counterintuitive. Your ability to pay in dollars is based on others belief in the value of the dollar – so more dollars less value. The value of the $ is relative to other currencies as well as what it will buy. Inflation is not just in the CPI and other government measures but also in the price of assets.. If the stampede for the door starts you will see inflation show up pretty quickly.
hi TPC, my initial thoughts were similar to yours, and I went long TLT. I thought,fIf there is fear of US budget deficits — as I agree there should well be following the ObamaCare passage — it should show up as inflation expectations. But as you and Rosenberg note, the spread between TIPS and US Treasuries has not increased, indeed, it has stayed flat or even decreased, I believe because inflationary and deflationary forces are so well matched.
But with the market moving against the position, I tried hard to think of the counter argument. As follows:
The simple argument is perhaps that with seignorage, people fear long term deterioration of the USD. Now where can this show up? Not in inflation expectations, because it is combated, as said, by deflationary pressures. It could show up in US bond investors shifting from the long end to the short end of the curve — indeed, this has happened, as reported by Brad Setser before he quit blogging — in fact, I thought that was one of the reasons for the yield curve steepening this time around.
(As a side note, this leads me to the question, not yet answered, of whether a steep yield curve, reputedly bullish, is the cause of a cyclical upturn, or merely a symptom of a cyclical upturn — because if only a symptom, and if we believe the yield curve steepness is partly caused, this time around, by one-off factors like shifting of Chinese bond buying to the short end, then it may prove a less reliable leading indicator of cyclical recovery than previously; but if it is a cause, then hip hip hurrah.)
But the yield curve didn’t really steepen additionally, rather, spreads across all Treasuries, save for very short dated ones, rose fairly uniformly. This also means that it is not rate hike fears that led to rising long yields.
Rather, I think it very conceivable that fears of USD depreciation would affect bond yields, especially if the marginal buyers are foreigners. After all, forex movements can totally kill your bond returns. And where else could you see currency depreciation priced in? Currency forwards prob don’t extend so far. The only place expected USD depreciation can show up is in long term US bond yields rising.
Incidentally, you might also be interested in this report from Morgan Stanley as a very good explanation of the negative swap spread.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29391025/Report-on-10-year-negative-swap-spread
hmm the MS link isn’t showing up in the previous comment, hope it does so above…